Online Discussion
In this discussion, we had conversed with each other our stands on democracy creating stability in society, and successfully attempted in creating a conclusion. In addition, we have highlighted the important parts of the conversation by putting them in bold. We have also constructed an argument flow-chart beneath this discussion.
In praise of idleness = Michael
CHIAM = Benjamin
Edene = Edene
in praise of idleness says:
hey benjamin!
in praise of idleness says:
so what do you think of democracy creating stability in society?
CHIAM says:
i agree with it, i feel that democracy does create stability
CHIAM says:
wat bout u mike
in praise of idleness says:
hmmm i don't exactly think otherwise, i think it is not democracy, but other systems of a society that create stability, and democracy is the combining factor of these systems.
in praise of idleness says:
how about we define the key terms first?
CHIAM says:
yes
CHIAM says:
lets define stability, mike would u like to start?
in praise of idleness says:
I guess stability would mean a simple case of peace and overall sustainability in economic, social and political aspects of society.
CHIAM says:
i agree with you mike
in praise of idleness says:
Perhaps you may know what democracy means then?
CHIAM says:
yes,
CHIAM says:
it is when everyone has a fair say in terms of voting and etc
in praise of idleness says:
Well, that is one characteristic of democracy.
CHIAM says:
would u like to elaborate on the other?
in praise of idleness says:
Lets just say that democracy is a system of government where the government serves the people, and society has varying levels of influence over government members and policies - depending on the flexibility of the system.
in praise of idleness says:
Though i don't think it would matter much in this discussion, as we both have a clear idea of what democracy means.
CHIAM says:
yes now lets move on to why we think democracy creates stability
in praise of idleness says:
Well, what's your premise?
CHIAM says:
well mike i feel that democracy creates stability because it gives everyone an equal right to decide what is best for him and the community thus there should be no conflict as the person with the most number of votes win, thus proving that a large number of people do support him and agree with him. Thus this will lead to stability and less conflict.
in praise of idleness says:
hmmm. that seems like a really interesting point to me.
in praise of idleness says:
not sure what edene would have to say to that but firstly
in praise of idleness says:
how does democracy ensure that this voting process will be carried out properly?
CHIAM says:
well this system would work because the people would want to select the government of their choice and there wont be any sort of rigging as the results of an inferior government will make the other options more accordingly.
CHIAM says:
mike wat do u think?
in praise of idleness says:
hmm that is true. I wonder what edene has to say to that though.
(Edene comes online)
in praise of idleness says:
yeah ok so edene, what do you think of ben's points?
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
i do not totally agree with his point that democracy can create stability in the society
in praise of idleness says:
hmm? why is that so?
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
it depends on how we define stability
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
when we talk about stability
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
we could mean many different things
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
to different people, stability could mean diferent things
in praise of idleness says:
yes, the meaning of stability has to be predefined. In fact, Benjamin and I had first clarified the definition - to be "peace and overall sustainability in economic, social and political aspects of society"
in praise of idleness says:
however, there is indeed a problem you have brought up
CHIAM says:
i would like to oppose on edenes point
in praise of idleness says:
I was also wondering whether democracy would really be capable in moving towards this "stability" in all cases.
CHIAM says:
although there are many diffrent views towards stability, the point of democracy is to give everyone a fair chance to vote thus there will be a majority and a minority in order for one side to win thus this will mean that a large or more people agree to the same idea of stability
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
However, compare India and China
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
China, being an authoritarian country, is ranked 85 in the 2005 Human Development Index, clearly ahead of India, a democratic country in 176th place.
in praise of idleness says:
wow, that is very interesting. It shows that democracy doesn't create stability in all countries.
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
furthermore, comparing to other democratic countries, such as Singapore, India is clearly lagging behind.
in praise of idleness says:
Precisely. Though we can mention many democratic countries that have clearly benefited from their system of government, there are areas where its implementation has not generated results.
CHIAM says:
yes, i do agree with mike
CHIAM says:
not all countries that subscribe to democracy will become the highest ranked in human development as there are always exception
CHIAM says:
but looking at the top few countries in the rankings they are democratic nations
CHIAM says:
so, i feel that democracy creates stability in some while not in others.
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
hence, we should say that democracy works differently in different societies
in praise of idleness says:
hmmm, but wouldn't it be correct to say that democracy isn't the "creator" of stability, since it doesn't apply to all countries?
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
we can only say that it can, but it might not necessarily be the cause of stability.
CHIAM says:
yes i agree with edene
CHIAM says:
looking at the 2007/2008 human development report
CHIAM says:
the first 20 countries mentioned are democratic nations
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
however, we should point out that democracy works only in certain societies, most of which are first world countries.
CHIAM says:
i believe that many of these countries became 'first world' countries through democracy
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
in the case of third world countries, where everyone is trying to fight for power, democracy might not necessarily work.
CHIAM says:
when everyone is fighting for power it cannot be called democracy
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
that is why it cannot work in third world countries even though they call themselves democratic nations.
in praise of idleness says:
well, this conversation has been deep but we have not reached a conclusion
in praise of idleness says:
would you guys like to hear my stand to this topic?
CHIAM says:
yes.
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
ok
in praise of idleness says:
Basically I feel that democracy is definitely not the ultimate cause of stability. It promotes stability yet does not create it.
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
I agree.
in praise of idleness says:
I feel that democracy comprises of many different systems, and these systems have to be fully developed in order for stability in society
CHIAM says:
yes I agree to Michael’s statement
in praise of idleness says:
And ultimately it is the organs within democracy, such as the ballot box, the political representatives as well as the people that have to cooperate with the political system of democracy in order for a stable society to be developed. It is these organs that "create" stability in society.
in praise of idleness says:
What do you guys think?
CHIAM says:
yes i agree democracy only works when the people cooperate with the system of democracy
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
yes, i totally agree, especially the part where you state that both the political representatives and the people have to cooperate to create this stability.
in praise of idleness says:
Exactly. So in conclusion, do we all disagree with the statement that democracy creates stability in society?
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
yes.
CHIAM says:
Yea.
ARGUMENT CHART
1. Definitions
a. Stability
i. A simple case of peace and overall sustainability in economic, social and political aspects of society.
b. Democracy
i. a system of government where the government serves the people, and society has varying levels of influence over government members and policies - depending on the flexibility of the system.
2. Arguments
a. Democracy does create stability in society
i. Fairness and Equality
1. an equal right to decide what is best for him
a. Voting procedures
2. Thus this will lead to stability and less conflict.
ii. REBUTTAL 1: how does democracy ensure that this voting process will be carried out properly?
1. the people would want to select the government of their choice and there wont be any sort of rigging as the results of an inferior government will make the other options more accordingly.
iii. REBUTTAL 2: To different people, stability could mean diferent things.
1. Although there are many different views towards stability, the point of democracy is to give everyone a fair chance to vote thus there will be a majority and a minority in order for one side to win thus this will mean that a large or more people agree to the same idea of stability.
a. China, being an authoritarian country, is ranked 85 in the 2005 Human Development Index, clearly ahead of India, a democratic country in 176th place.
b. Democracy doesn't create stability in all countries. There are areas where its implementation has not generated results.
b. Democracy does not create stability in society
i. Improbability
1. Not all countries that implement democracy into their system of government have generated results in this policy change. India, for example, is a democratic country but has suffered economically.
2. hence, we should say that democracy works differently in different societies
ii. REBUTTAL 1
1. looking at the top few countries in the rankings they are democratic nations, based on Human Development Report
2. i believe that many of these countries became 'first world' countries through democracy
3. when everyone is fighting for power it cannot be called democracy
c. Conclusion: Democracy is not the main cause of stability in society
i. Democracy comprises of many different systems, and these systems have to be fully developed in order for stability in society.
ii. It is the organs within democracy, such as the ballot box, the political representatives as well as the people that have to cooperate with the political system of democracy in order for a stable society to be developed.
Tuesday, August 5, 2008
Thursday, May 22, 2008
Our different Points of View
Social Studies Dialogue – Democracy creates stability in society.
Benjamin Chiam: Democracy does create stability in society.
1. Voicing of Opinions: When equal rights are given for all member of a society to vote, this gives them a chance to let their views be heard. This ensures that everybody gets and equal say in the election of the society’s leader. Thus with democracy the will be little chance of problems like dictatorship, because the peoples rights are herd and the people have a right to nominate their leaders it will be hard for dictators to come to power. Adding to this people can decide what they want improved in their community and society because they are ultimately in control of the political power of the society. An example of this would be the United States Of America (USA). The Americans live in a democratic society and thus the citizens have voting rights to nominate their presidents. As we can see from the USA there has been no dictatorship in the country before thus proving the point that it is hard for dictatorship to come about with democracy.
2. Greater protection of human rights: When there is democracy the people in the society enjoys liberties and freedoms. Some examples of these freedoms are freedom of speech and freedom of political expression. This will allow the people in the society to voice out their opinions whenever they are unhappy about something. These freedoms and liberties will ultimately bring about change which will benefit the society.
3. Common set of ideas and views: With a democratic society the people in it will have a common set of ideas and views, when they elect their leader. As the people have a common set of ideas and views the society will be able to advance more quickly and will ultimately help in the development of the community. Adding to this the freedom and liberties in a democratic society allows the people to express their views this will allow the society to improve on current issues and prevent future problems. This will ultimately allow the society to develop very quickly. An example of a country which has developed so rapidly due to democracy would again be the USA. Because of it democratic society it has allowed the society to develop and improve so rapidly. While countries without democracy for example, North Korea and Vietnam do not progress so rapidly.
Edene Chan: Democracy does not always create stability in society
1. Democracy is able to create stability in a society. But sometimes, it is used in the incorrect way, and tweaked to benefit a certain group of people and put others at a disadvantage.
2. No track record: Not all countries that implement democracy into their system of government have generated results in this policy change. India, for example, is a democratic country but has suffered economically.
3. Possibility of failure: Even though democracy has shown major changes in the world today, there are still some cases where it has shown otherwise eg. India as stated. In India, for example, even though it is a a democratic country, it has seen to be lagging behind other democratic countries or even those countries with other political systems, such as China. Hence, this is an example that democracy might not necessarily create stability for a society.
4. Unfair bias: Democracy is said to give all equal opportunities, but there might be this biasness within the society itself that the government might not be able to control or put under control. Hence, democracy only works if the government is aware of its presence, which it the case of the private sector is not totally possible to take note of.
Michael Ng: Democracy is merely a system and is not a factor in stability – it is the many aspects of democracy that have to be developed in order to have a stable society.
1. Requirements of Ballot Box: Firstly, the ballot box is a very important and crucial part of the democratic system. The people must have certain liberties and authority in making decisions for the society they live in, and their views must be represented accurately and fairly. This obviously includeses the elections of their political leaders(in representative democracy). After, the word democracy came from the Greek term for “people power”. The ballot box has to be effective such that the people’s opinions can be expressed.
2. Requirements of Political Representatives: Secondly, the representatives have to stick to their promises to the electorate. They also have to make decisions solely for the benefit of the people. If his benevolence is questionable, he may very well be kicked out of his position as a member of parliament. A benevolent democratic government is entirely achievable as after all, the majority hardly makes mistakes with regards to their choices and even if they did, they have the power against those they misguidedly voted.
3. Requirements of Society/General Populace: Last but not least the people have to do their part, and be informed of current affairs, such that they would not make rash and unreasonable decisions during elections. This is of utmost importance as it decides where the government and the nation will be heading towards in the future.
4. Democracy as a Connecting body: Democracy, as a system, holds them together in order for them to create a stable nation. This system is favoured by the people, and ultimately they are the fundaments of society and thus democracy is a favourable and effective system.
Benjamin Chiam: Democracy does create stability in society.
1. Voicing of Opinions: When equal rights are given for all member of a society to vote, this gives them a chance to let their views be heard. This ensures that everybody gets and equal say in the election of the society’s leader. Thus with democracy the will be little chance of problems like dictatorship, because the peoples rights are herd and the people have a right to nominate their leaders it will be hard for dictators to come to power. Adding to this people can decide what they want improved in their community and society because they are ultimately in control of the political power of the society. An example of this would be the United States Of America (USA). The Americans live in a democratic society and thus the citizens have voting rights to nominate their presidents. As we can see from the USA there has been no dictatorship in the country before thus proving the point that it is hard for dictatorship to come about with democracy.
2. Greater protection of human rights: When there is democracy the people in the society enjoys liberties and freedoms. Some examples of these freedoms are freedom of speech and freedom of political expression. This will allow the people in the society to voice out their opinions whenever they are unhappy about something. These freedoms and liberties will ultimately bring about change which will benefit the society.
3. Common set of ideas and views: With a democratic society the people in it will have a common set of ideas and views, when they elect their leader. As the people have a common set of ideas and views the society will be able to advance more quickly and will ultimately help in the development of the community. Adding to this the freedom and liberties in a democratic society allows the people to express their views this will allow the society to improve on current issues and prevent future problems. This will ultimately allow the society to develop very quickly. An example of a country which has developed so rapidly due to democracy would again be the USA. Because of it democratic society it has allowed the society to develop and improve so rapidly. While countries without democracy for example, North Korea and Vietnam do not progress so rapidly.
Edene Chan: Democracy does not always create stability in society
1. Democracy is able to create stability in a society. But sometimes, it is used in the incorrect way, and tweaked to benefit a certain group of people and put others at a disadvantage.
2. No track record: Not all countries that implement democracy into their system of government have generated results in this policy change. India, for example, is a democratic country but has suffered economically.
3. Possibility of failure: Even though democracy has shown major changes in the world today, there are still some cases where it has shown otherwise eg. India as stated. In India, for example, even though it is a a democratic country, it has seen to be lagging behind other democratic countries or even those countries with other political systems, such as China. Hence, this is an example that democracy might not necessarily create stability for a society.
4. Unfair bias: Democracy is said to give all equal opportunities, but there might be this biasness within the society itself that the government might not be able to control or put under control. Hence, democracy only works if the government is aware of its presence, which it the case of the private sector is not totally possible to take note of.
Michael Ng: Democracy is merely a system and is not a factor in stability – it is the many aspects of democracy that have to be developed in order to have a stable society.
1. Requirements of Ballot Box: Firstly, the ballot box is a very important and crucial part of the democratic system. The people must have certain liberties and authority in making decisions for the society they live in, and their views must be represented accurately and fairly. This obviously includeses the elections of their political leaders(in representative democracy). After, the word democracy came from the Greek term for “people power”. The ballot box has to be effective such that the people’s opinions can be expressed.
2. Requirements of Political Representatives: Secondly, the representatives have to stick to their promises to the electorate. They also have to make decisions solely for the benefit of the people. If his benevolence is questionable, he may very well be kicked out of his position as a member of parliament. A benevolent democratic government is entirely achievable as after all, the majority hardly makes mistakes with regards to their choices and even if they did, they have the power against those they misguidedly voted.
3. Requirements of Society/General Populace: Last but not least the people have to do their part, and be informed of current affairs, such that they would not make rash and unreasonable decisions during elections. This is of utmost importance as it decides where the government and the nation will be heading towards in the future.
4. Democracy as a Connecting body: Democracy, as a system, holds them together in order for them to create a stable nation. This system is favoured by the people, and ultimately they are the fundaments of society and thus democracy is a favourable and effective system.
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