Online Discussion

Online Discussion

In this discussion, we had conversed with each other our stands on democracy creating stability in society, and successfully attempted in creating a conclusion. In addition, we have highlighted the important parts of the conversation by putting them in bold. We have also constructed an argument flow-chart beneath this discussion.

In praise of idleness = Michael
CHIAM = Benjamin
Edene = Edene

in praise of idleness says:
hey benjamin!
in praise of idleness says:
so what do you think of democracy creating stability in society?
CHIAM says:
i agree with it, i feel that democracy does create stability
CHIAM says:
wat bout u mike
in praise of idleness says:
hmmm i don't exactly think otherwise, i think it is not democracy, but other systems of a society that create stability, and democracy is the combining factor of these systems.
in praise of idleness says:
how about we define the key terms first?
CHIAM says:
yes
CHIAM says:
lets define stability, mike would u like to start?
in praise of idleness says:
I guess stability would mean a simple case of peace and overall sustainability in economic, social and political aspects of society.
CHIAM says:
i agree with you mike
in praise of idleness says:
Perhaps you may know what democracy means then?
CHIAM says:
yes,
CHIAM says:
it is when everyone has a fair say in terms of voting and etc
in praise of idleness says:
Well, that is one characteristic of democracy.
CHIAM says:
would u like to elaborate on the other?
in praise of idleness says:
Lets just say that democracy is a system of government where the government serves the people, and society has varying levels of influence over government members and policies - depending on the flexibility of the system.
in praise of idleness says:
Though i don't think it would matter much in this discussion, as we both have a clear idea of what democracy means.
CHIAM says:
yes now lets move on to why we think democracy creates stability
in praise of idleness says:
Well, what's your premise?
CHIAM says:
well mike i feel that democracy creates stability because it gives everyone an equal right to decide what is best for him and the community thus there should be no conflict as the person with the most number of votes win, thus proving that a large number of people do support him and agree with him. Thus this will lead to stability and less conflict.
in praise of idleness says:
hmmm. that seems like a really interesting point to me.
in praise of idleness says:
not sure what edene would have to say to that but firstly
in praise of idleness says:
how does democracy ensure that this voting process will be carried out properly?
CHIAM says:
well this system would work because the people would want to select the government of their choice and there wont be any sort of rigging as the results of an inferior government will make the other options more accordingly.
CHIAM says:
mike wat do u think?
in praise of idleness says:
hmm that is true. I wonder what edene has to say to that though.

(Edene comes online)

in praise of idleness says:
yeah ok so edene, what do you think of ben's points?
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
i do not totally agree with his point that democracy can create stability in the society
in praise of idleness says:
hmm? why is that so?
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
it depends on how we define stability
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
when we talk about stability
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
we could mean many different things
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
to different people, stability could mean diferent things
in praise of idleness says:
yes, the meaning of stability has to be predefined. In fact, Benjamin and I had first clarified the definition - to be "peace and overall sustainability in economic, social and political aspects of society"
in praise of idleness says:
however, there is indeed a problem you have brought up
CHIAM says:
i would like to oppose on edenes point
in praise of idleness says:
I was also wondering whether democracy would really be capable in moving towards this "stability" in all cases.
CHIAM says:
although there are many diffrent views towards stability, the point of democracy is to give everyone a fair chance to vote thus there will be a majority and a minority in order for one side to win thus this will mean that a large or more people agree to the same idea of stability
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
However, compare India and China
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
China, being an authoritarian country, is ranked 85 in the 2005 Human Development Index, clearly ahead of India, a democratic country in 176th place.
in praise of idleness says:
wow, that is very interesting. It shows that democracy doesn't create stability in all countries.
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
furthermore, comparing to other democratic countries, such as Singapore, India is clearly lagging behind.
in praise of idleness says:
Precisely. Though we can mention many democratic countries that have clearly benefited from their system of government, there are areas where its implementation has not generated results.
CHIAM says:
yes, i do agree with mike
CHIAM says:
not all countries that subscribe to democracy will become the highest ranked in human development as there are always exception
CHIAM says:
but looking at the top few countries in the rankings they are democratic nations
CHIAM says:
so, i feel that democracy creates stability in some while not in others.
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
hence, we should say that democracy works differently in different societies
in praise of idleness says:
hmmm, but wouldn't it be correct to say that democracy isn't the "creator" of stability, since it doesn't apply to all countries?
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
we can only say that it can, but it might not necessarily be the cause of stability.
CHIAM says:
yes i agree with edene
CHIAM says:
looking at the 2007/2008 human development report
CHIAM says:
the first 20 countries mentioned are democratic nations
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
however, we should point out that democracy works only in certain societies, most of which are first world countries.
CHIAM says:
i believe that many of these countries became 'first world' countries through democracy
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
in the case of third world countries, where everyone is trying to fight for power, democracy might not necessarily work.
CHIAM says:
when everyone is fighting for power it cannot be called democracy
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
that is why it cannot work in third world countries even though they call themselves democratic nations.
in praise of idleness says:
well, this conversation has been deep but we have not reached a conclusion
in praise of idleness says:
would you guys like to hear my stand to this topic?
CHIAM says:
yes.
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
ok
in praise of idleness says:
Basically I feel that democracy is definitely not the ultimate cause of stability. It promotes stability yet does not create it.
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
I agree.
in praise of idleness says:
I feel that democracy comprises of many different systems, and these systems have to be fully developed in order for stability in society
CHIAM says:
yes I agree to Michael’s statement
in praise of idleness says:
And ultimately it is the organs within democracy, such as the ballot box, the political representatives as well as the people that have to cooperate with the political system of democracy in order for a stable society to be developed. It is these organs that "create" stability in society.
in praise of idleness says:
What do you guys think?
CHIAM says:
yes i agree democracy only works when the people cooperate with the system of democracy
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
yes, i totally agree, especially the part where you state that both the political representatives and the people have to cooperate to create this stability.
in praise of idleness says:
Exactly. So in conclusion, do we all disagree with the statement that democracy creates stability in society?
edene; Bayley Exco '09! says:
yes.
CHIAM says:
Yea.



ARGUMENT CHART

1. Definitions
a. Stability
i. A simple case of peace and overall sustainability in economic, social and political aspects of society.
b. Democracy
i. a system of government where the government serves the people, and society has varying levels of influence over government members and policies - depending on the flexibility of the system.
2. Arguments
a. Democracy does create stability in society
i. Fairness and Equality
1. an equal right to decide what is best for him
a. Voting procedures
2. Thus this will lead to stability and less conflict.
ii. REBUTTAL 1: how does democracy ensure that this voting process will be carried out properly?
1. the people would want to select the government of their choice and there wont be any sort of rigging as the results of an inferior government will make the other options more accordingly.
iii. REBUTTAL 2: To different people, stability could mean diferent things.
1. Although there are many different views towards stability, the point of democracy is to give everyone a fair chance to vote thus there will be a majority and a minority in order for one side to win thus this will mean that a large or more people agree to the same idea of stability.
a. China, being an authoritarian country, is ranked 85 in the 2005 Human Development Index, clearly ahead of India, a democratic country in 176th place.
b. Democracy doesn't create stability in all countries. There are areas where its implementation has not generated results.
b. Democracy does not create stability in society
i. Improbability
1. Not all countries that implement democracy into their system of government have generated results in this policy change. India, for example, is a democratic country but has suffered economically.
2. hence, we should say that democracy works differently in different societies
ii. REBUTTAL 1
1. looking at the top few countries in the rankings they are democratic nations, based on Human Development Report
2. i believe that many of these countries became 'first world' countries through democracy
3. when everyone is fighting for power it cannot be called democracy
c. Conclusion: Democracy is not the main cause of stability in society
i. Democracy comprises of many different systems, and these systems have to be fully developed in order for stability in society.
ii. It is the organs within democracy, such as the ballot box, the political representatives as well as the people that have to cooperate with the political system of democracy in order for a stable society to be developed.